Homosexuality in ancient Greece?

Oh! That my spirit were yon Heaven of light
To gaze upon thee with a thousand eyes

—Plato

apollo_sauroctonus



Tomorrow Sunday I won’t post any entry here to leave my visitors the opportunity to read carefully my latest entry on “Women and marriage” in Sparta. The uttermost importance of what the author says in that post is explained in my “metaphysical” comment in that thread.

Since that post is related to Eros in Ancient Greece, the issue of other forms of Greco-Roman sexuality should be addressed.

It irritates me that LGBT deviants and writers like James O’Meara want to usurp the legacy of the classical world to rationalize their lifestyles. The fact is that the missing color in their rainbow flag—the Hellenes’ infatuation with handsome adolescents, not adults—was the only form of homosexuality tolerated in some Greek and Roman cities. This had nothing to do with the contemporary “gay” movement or sex between coeval adults.

As a dilettante in classic literature I tried to say something about it in “On classic pederasty,” but there are people who are far more knowledgeable than me. Today, surfing the internet starting here, I found several posts by a blogger in The Phora that complement what I have said. The erudite blogger, Ixion, is the one who uses as an avatar an image of the Virgin Mary; you may skip the other comments in that thread, “Debunking Ancient Greek Homosexual History.”

But all of this is a distraction related to my differences with Counter-Currents: what really matters is the subject of hetero-sexuality in Ancient Greece.

10 Comments

  1. Do you have any speculation as to why the Greeks were so open to and approving of pederasty* (which IMO is worse than adult homosexuality)? I’ve read one view that argues it is because the Greeks had a misogynistic view of women and didn’t consider them to be the intellectual equals of men therefore the adult male – adolescent male became the romantic ideal (i.e. master – student). I’m mixed on that.

    I agree with your view BTW that adult homosexuals should be left alone as long as they are closeted, not public, don’t touch children, and are not subversive; a view which I first saw expressed on the internet by Larry Auster.

    * Could this be a psycho-class feature; i.e. a much less malevolent form of child abuse than the Meso-American cannibalism, but still the consequence of a less developed cultural / societal psychology?

    • My standard for judging sexuality is rather sui generis: it has nothing to do with either the anti-homo conservatives or the pro-homo liberals of our world. It’s based on beauty, actually on Aryan female beauty (which very few, if any, male adolescents reach in our world). See my full views on the subject in my essay “Gitone’s magic”.

      As to your question, what the Greeks did cannot be worse than the coeval adult degeneracy of today because (1) those adolescents were asked permission by the erastes (as women are asked permission) instead of the molestation we see throughout Christendom, and (2) unlike what today’s sodomites do, an erastes-eromenos relationship doesn’t make the normal person feel revulsion (see this clip from Fellini-Satyricon); that is, the esthetic laws are not broken, not even for hetero standards.

      Just put yourself for one second in the sandals of the ancient Greeks. What would you do in a society that practiced Purdah: a “social institution of female seclusion” as was done in Athens (but not in Sparta)?

      When I was a kid I remember the bestseller The Naked Ape. Those were times when you still could speak openly about homosexuality as something deviant. Zoologist Desmond Morris wrote in that book about “printing” and “misprinting”. An example of the later would be homoerotism in the absence of the normal presence of the fair sex. It makes sense from developmental psychology, and if a Greek historian whose name presently evades me was right—that Athenian lads were as cute as girls (see the above sculpture on the Apollo Sauroktonos)—it is no mystery why some of them “wired” their minds with images of those fair boys.

      In my previous entry and in a coming chapter on Sparta (I believe it’s the 14th chapter) you will see that the Spartans took measures against such homoerotic misprinting; not that harsh measures you imagine but simply eliminating in their homeland the Purdah custom of other Greek towns. In other words, if you are not seeing too many girls during your hormonal age, you might start transferring your affections to the creatures that resemble them the most: the Sauroktonos of your town.

      Don’t take me wrong. My model for the ethnostate is the Jane Austen world, not Pericles’ Athens. But we must not fall in the trap of judging the ancient Greeks according to our standards. Let’s judge them according to the standards of their age; and, taking into account that other cultures still sacrificed their children ritually, the Greeks fare much better than all of them as to childrearing methods. Again, keep in mind that, as to their pederastic impulses, unlike the molesters of today the adolescents at least were asked permission, sometimes even to the father of the “Sauroktonos” they had fallen in love!

  2. Excellent comment. Incredibly informative and better than any opinion of Greek sexuality I’ve seen.

  3. Did you read this essay also, Chechar?

    • Yes, of course: and if you click on the words “starting here” in the above entry, you will see that that article has been translated to English and published in YouTube under the title “Homosexuality in Ancient Greece – The Myth is Collapsing [Audio Edited]”.

      It was precisely the way Ixion responded to “Evropa Soberana” what moved me to write this entry. Ixion seems to know the subject better than most of us—even when s/he did not make any association to what Morris said, nor illustrated it or speculated using a stunning sculpture, as I did above.

      • Oh. Ok, i didn´t noticed it. I thought that you had translated only the chapter about Sparta.

      • It was not me the one who translated Evoropa Soberana’s anti-homo article.

  4. I’m not going to study at length your comments, but I appreciate your attack on LGBTQ estblishment voices. Still, I can’t help but notice you kind of fail to recognize the territory from which you launch your broadsides. The LGBTQ community shits on Greek homosexuality, its theorists keep themselves at arms length, equating Greek pederasty with violence against women. And so you’ve really got off on the wrong foot. Attacking Greek Pederasty gets you nowhere in an attack on the LGBTQ establishment. One of the political developments that helped to legitimize LGBTQ as a mainstream political and cultural force in America was its internal cleansing of pederastic voices. So your claim that LGBTQ looks to Ancient Greek homosexuality for inspiration is off base, and frankly a waste of time for you.

    • So your claim that LGBTQ looks to Ancient Greek homosexuality for inspiration is off base, and frankly a waste of time for you.

      Frankly, I am not familiar at all with LGBT. These posts on homosexuality in my blog are rather polemics against those in white nationalism with a “gay” agenda. I figured out that, since I saw the LGBT flag on the Wikipedia article on Greek pederasty, homos in general were trying to use classic pederasty to justify their claims.

  5. Nice one, pleasure reading…


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